What is the Montessori assistant?
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About Jesse McCarthy
For over 20 years, Jesse McCarthy has worked with thousands of children, parents, teachers and administrators — as a principal for infants to 8th graders, an executive with a nationwide group of private schools, an elementary & junior-high teacher, and a parent-and-teacher mentor.
Jesse received his B.A. in psychology from the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) and his Montessori teacher's diploma for ages 2.5 to 6+ from Association Montessori Internationale (AMI), the organization founded by Dr. Maria Montessori.
Jesse has spoken on early education and child development at schools around the globe, from Midwest America to the Middle East, as well as at popular organizations in and outside of the Montessori community: from AMI/Canada to old-school Twitter. Jesse now lives in South Florida where he heads MontessoriEducation.com and, alongside his wife, runs La Casa, The Schoolhouse.
Transcript: The Montessori Assistant with Kate and Terry Millie
The educator, Dr Maria Montessori once said,
The child developing harmoniously and the adult improving himself at his side make a very exciting and attractive picture.
Welcome to Montessori education with me, Jesse McCarthy, where we talk raising children and educating students while bettering ourselves right alongside them. Everyone happy to be with you today. So we're going to be talking about the Montessori assistant. I mean, like what it is, what is their role, everything going on in the classroom with assistants, and that's I mean, that can include what happens when an assistant and a teacher or guide and get into conflict. You know, they have a disagreement about some what do you do? Do assistants talk with parents about each child's day? Or is that only the role of the head teacher or guide? So all sorts of things are going to come up. Those are a few examples with me to discuss this. All is a Duo or this kind of wife, husband, mom, dad, team, Kate and Terry Millie. So they've been in education for about 40 plus years, and that's covering all the way from birth to the teenage years. They both have serious, real world experience. So I'm talking in the classroom as assistants, guides, administrators. They've got their own company, which I'll talk about later, called gather Montessori. They've been trained in Montessori like real deal train. So Association, Montessori International, ami, if you're not familiar with that, that's where I was also trained. It was began by Maria Montessori herself. Kate is trained for the ages zero to three and three to six. Terry is trained for three to six and then six to 12. They both also have masters in education, so they got a lot of backing in education. And Terry is actually an auxiliary trainer himself for for the elementary year six to 12. Kate also co runs Dundas Valley Montessori, which is a school out in Ontario that it's just an exceptional school. I've actually used it in some of my videos. It's, it's, it's pretty impressive. Again, they run this organization called gather Montessori, which I will talk about at the end of the podcast, but it's basically just bringing Montessori principles out into the broader world. Again, powerhouse, I hope you enjoy the conversation, and let's, let's get to it right. Kate and Terry, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on.
Thanks for having us. Yeah, it's pleasure to be here, yeah. So
We met up in Canada, and it was a fun time out there. And I know you guys had done an assistance lecture, and I was very curious to hear some of it. I was not there, so I missed some of it. So just immediately jumping in for those people out there that are curious, I like to see what's an anecdote, or what's something you've experienced as, like, a well, this is an amazing assistant experience. And or, you know, something that you've experienced was like, uh, this did not go so well, whether yourself or some other person out there, you know, yeah. Yeah. So I was lucky enough. This is a great experience. I was lucky enough to start a new YCC, young children's community for 18 months to three year olds. That's what we call it in Canada, young children's community in about 2018 I was starting a new class, and so I needed a new assessment assistant, and I came upon this woman who had been doing the job of assistant for years, you know, she was like, 15 year veteran of assisting, and she came in and really was intuitive with what, what we needed to do in the class. So she maintained a lot of eye contact. She, like, had my back with, with student, classroom managing, and what I talked to her about after, like, after our, you know, a month, and I said, you're really good at this job of assistant. Have you ever thought about, you know, training to become a guide? And she said, I love assisting. I love the job of assisting. I love doing it really well. She says, I she said, I love like, looking at you and making eye contact and knowing what you need, what the class needs, and then doing it. And it was really the first time in my career, and you know, I'd been doing this for 15 years at that time, where an assistant said to me, this is enough. This is this is a role that I can do really well. And I think that that that it was really you could see it. You could see her excellence in the in the role of assistant,
You have you Terry did the first time I've ever seen this. You raised your hand on my zoom thing. So you that means you want to hop in and say something.
I think it's like zoom is doing things. Did that when Kate went like this, oh, that's so funny. So those of you watching, oh the new zoom. Oh, man, that was so cool to hear. But anyway, hop in there, because then you're gonna say something. So I.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, as as an elementary guide, for a long time, I was really growing my class by myself. I didn't have an assistant, so I had 12 children in my class. And then, you know, I had 16 children in my class. And when I got without an assistant, or without an assistant, without an assistant, okay, without an assistant, I was doing everything. I got up to 24 students, and they said, You know, I think we should, I think you need some help. And so what we did was my French specialist, who would come in, because in Canada, we have to teach French as part of the provincial curriculum. So that French assistant, they said, she's been here for a long time. You've kind of been working with her. She sees what you're doing. Why don't you meet with her a few times and have her stay and help you? And so we did that, and her husband happened to be a university professor, and she had been working kind of on the side with him, managing everything. So it was kind of like I had this university caliber assistant figuring out all of my all of my business side of my class, so that I could really just focus on the children, on observing the children, being with the children, delivering the lessons. She took care of all of the admin, and that was amazing.
Now, when you say so curious now with the business side. And then you Terry saying she just kind of handled it. Almost made me think of like a basketball game when somebody is that perfect pass and they're like, they're not even looking, but they've just passed you the ball. What would you say is that kind of the business end? What you put it Terry, and then for Kate, what was she doing? That was just done so well with almost a little bit of eye contact.
Well, the business end for me was kind of the the paperwork that went between the classroom and admin, organizing things like, if I wanted to set up meetings with my with various parents, she would just handle the arrangements for that and just tell me what my schedule was. So I all of those things. Just, I didn't have to worry about the logistics. I just had to attend and show up for for the actual events or the meetings, and that that's really what she did.
Oh, there's got, there's already gotta be so many jealous teachers. I can't wait to talk more about that relationship and what you just said. But anyway, so and, and for for me, at our level, like for any environment under the age of six, for children on the age of six, it's our job to be there for the children. So we don't have a lot of like communicating verbally. So when you really find an assistant that you connect with, then you do a lot of I work together like you're looking at each other. You're communicating with your eyes, so that you don't have to holler across the classroom, or you don't have to come talk to each other. And so finding someone, first of all, that you're like, willing to make eye contact with like all through the day, and that they can understand you and respond, feels very much like you're being seen. You're being seen in the good work you're doing, and you can recognize their good work and that that's like a really special and I'm sure we'll talk about the special connection between assistant and trained trained guide is that they start to see each other just with their eyes, and they can do so much to support each other without communicating verbally.
So I mean, I think maybe we put off something because I almost want to jump in immediately to that idea of, like, you have to have a relationship with this person that can't be like, Oh well, we've, we've got the perfect assistant for you, and they drop her in your room, and you guys do not connect. That might be problematic. But before we get into kind of interpersonal what, what is the role of an assistant in your guys's view? I mean, I know it might change a little bit as you change ages. But what is it?
It's, I think it's different than what we think, because we often think of, you know, the assistant is someone to come in and help us with the children, but in reality, what the the role of the assistant is, is to be the assistant to the guide. So to be that person, like, like this person I'm describing, was to come in and just support the work of the guide, and not kind of the secondary role is to maybe help somebody with their reading, or to listen as somebody read something back or does a repetition of of some kind of material. But their main purpose is to make sure that the classroom is prepared and that the guide is supported in their work, and that work includes all of the observation as well as delivering the presentations for the children and having the space and place to observe.
And I gotta say, even you saying that, Terry, is that I had heard you said that, said that when we had talked, I think briefly in in Canada, and it's rare that I hear that. So I just want everybody out there to know that is somewhat of a radical view. I think it's correct, but it you don't often, or at least not often enough, hear that, that you're. There to assist the head teacher, and I definitely want to talk about how problematic that can be if people don't know that as an assistant or even as a teacher. But I just want to put it out there that that is, I agree, and it's it's not the norm from my experience with a lot of Montessori schools, but it probably should be in my in my view. So I just want to throw that out there from the audience, you know?
Yeah, I think one of the things that we that we worry about is that with any adult, when they're being prepared to be in the Montessori classroom, is that they're going to substitute their effort for the children's effort. And so we understand that really well at the CASL level, when you know when they might be you know they might need help putting on a jacket or something, and we might zip it up for them, instead of giving them what they need to do that themselves. So we want to encourage them to do it for themselves. And at the elementary level, the thing that we want to be careful not to substitute is is our thought. We don't want to put our intelligence in place of the child's intelligence. And quite often, the extra person in the classroom at the elementary level does that. They will solve the problems that come up, instead of leave those problems for the children to solve, let them come up with a solution, even if it's not going to work, it's better for them to experience that process and failure, and then the subsequent process that happens after than to do that. And if we go in thinking that we have to assist the children, then we're taking away that intellectual work.
Terry, do you? I mean, do you agree? I was gonna say, are you in line?
I would add one, yeah, I would add one little piece because, of course, it shifts a bit when we're caring for younger children. But the piece about which Terry touched on about that observation that the assistant is this extra set of eyes, which is so integral, and I think we don't value those extra set of eyes enough when, when a guides giving a presentation that assistant can see so much, and it's almost like harnessing those, those observational skills and helping the assistant feel empowered to observe and to bring all of that data and information back to the guide so that they can have a conversation about what is seen is a huge part of I'm putting this quote, assisting the guide is that observation piece that we definitely don't empower our assistants enough to use.
So even the idea of just the way that you guys are talking about the assistance, I know I've talked to you before about this, there's just this uplifted view of what they're doing in in the classroom, it's not this, oh, you're just there, you know, to cover the kids during lunch or cover them outside, but this uplifted view. But it's, it's not always easy for adults to feel that and really get that and understand that. Do you think that comes about through training? Do you think it's something that some people just bring with them. I mean, do the assistants? Do you believe the best assistants need to be Montessori trained?
I think that. I think that, yes, they do need to have some Montessori training, but it's not they don't need to go and take a diploma course where they know how to deliver every material in the classroom, they need to have the basics, or the fundamentals, behind the psychology and the theory of of what it is we do, so that they understand the Montessori point of view when it comes to child development, and that They understand what work the children are actually doing. So they don't get kind of it's easy to get to see all of the materials, and see the children working with the materials and thinking that that is it, whatever the concept is they're working with, is the only thing, and to miss the internal construction, the self construction, that's happening for the child.
So I think it's important for them to to really get into the theory, but, but also, I would say that, like on the job, connection to to the classroom is is also hugely vital and and I think if a assistant isn't able to take some sort of like orientation or some training, that that it is the schools and the and their partners, you know, job to help them either do some readings or take them through the environment so they really understand what what their role is and what their responsibilities are. And also, if I can just say that, I think we misnamed them when we called them assistance, like there has to be a better name, because assistant makes this kind of like hierarchical feeling around it. And I don't know the right name. I haven't figured it out, but the the value that they have cannot be underestimated. A good assistant, a good a person that really like this person I was telling you about at the beginning, a person that loves. Of that role and sees it as valuable. Is, you know, is so important to the functionality of a classroom and and I really think we undervalue them, and think that we can just throw anyone in and it'll be okay.
I mean, we've seen that a lot in America with big chain, Montessori where, and then it's just, you know, it's just a revolving door. The assistants come, even the teachers at this point, are coming and going. So with even thinking about that, and you guys, you know what it takes to really deeply get this philosophy in Montessori and then apply it. Is it too much of an expectation that these, quote, assistants are going to have a deep philosophical understanding, or an understand on a story like, is that too much for most people out there? Because, I mean, even as an example thing, Terry, you said, your your assistants like almost a scholar, and then with Kate, you're I was assuming your assistant was never trained, but somehow they they, they were like these, you know, God sends to you guys. So how do you, how do you balance those two? Because it seems like, in practice, they didn't need the training, but we didn't need the training.
So what do you? What do you think well, and I think it's the value of them, like both of these people had been doing this job for a long time. So we're see, we are also seeing the revolving door of people coming into a class and leaving, and a lot, I think a lot of it is the undervalue of them as as a as a person in a role and the time in. So if they can't do a training, it's, it's um, sharing what you're doing, like as a guide in a YCC classroom, I'm changing materials all the time. So we change materials every two to three weeks. And what might be the inclination is, I come in after school and I just go and change the shelves, but I'm missing an opportunity to connect with my assistant and also share with her what's going on. So you know, I'm taking off these car these vehicles, because they're not using them anymore, and I'm going to put on the insects because, you insects because, you know, spring is coming, there'll be insects, so you start to understand the reason behind why things are moving around the class. And that connection gives them some pedagogy. It gives them some method and curriculum, and also gives us a time to connect over the children and their interest and that input leads to long term success. And I think if we don't see them as partners, and if we just see them as helpers, then they're not going to stick around, and they're not going to become these amazing superstars, because they can't, they don't get a chance to
Right? And I think, I think a big key there is communication, being able to communicate purposes. And we're, we're big on that as as Montessori guides, right? We know the purpose of every presentation we make, but often, with our assistance, we're not communicating the purpose of why we're asking them to do something. And so if we are very clear, here's the purpose of what we're doing, and this is the way we're going to do it, because it meets our purpose criteria, then it makes a lot more sense to everybody. And they didn't need to be trained. They just needed that conversation and that communication.
So I mean so much of what you're saying, and I know you guys are deeply into relationship building, whether that's with parents, assistants, children or whatnot, the problems I've seen through the years, and even as a head of school, as a head teacher assisting in in classes, is there tends to be kind of a if there's a disagreement, the assistants thinks it shouldn't be this way, and the head teacher is like, Yo, I'm the head Teacher. What you know? So so how do you handle because all of us have to understand this for ourselves, ultimately, like if we're just copying because the head teacher says, No, that's the way you do it. And it's like that's completely opposite of the Montessori philosophy for anybody, for child, adult. So how do you handle a disagreement between assistant and a head teacher in terms of what should happen in the classroom?
Yeah, so I think, like, like, you said, we're big into relationship building, and I'm, I'm big into as an I am also an administrator a lot of the time. Is this, like, if you can build the relationship first, you can enter into a lot more conflict later. So if, if you are communicating and sharing, you know your purposes, your ideas, you're talking about children. When something comes up that you don't really agree with, that's happening in the classroom, you have a foundation to work from. And I say that all the time with parents and with staff members, is that relationship is key to all success of your of your entire school, I would say, is built on relationships. And so if you can start there, then you can enter into conflict and know that you can resolve it together. If I would say, always bring back the idea that we're here for the children. And what are the children telling us? So the children are telling us a need, and sometimes with a conflict, it's just. If someone's uncomfortable, the assistant's uncomfortable with something that's happened in the class, or the the adults uncomfortable, or the guides uncomfortable with something. And so what is that uncomfortableness and how do we move beyond it? But I think if we don't get comfortable with being uncomfortable together and in conflict together, we just avoid each other. And what a lot of what happens with challenges and teaching teams is they have become they've entered a conflict, and neither of them is talking about it, so they just are carrying on and not making eye contact anymore. And until they get comfortable sitting in that discomfort, they can't move on together and that relationship,
I feel like this, this idea of conflict. You know, if you're on Instagram, Montessori just looks beautiful all day. 24/7 you know, it's just, and it's just so crazy, because so much like life includes conflict. So the idea that somehow, even on these greatest, you know, companionships in any sport, there's every now and again, you're going to get conflicts, I just, and that's that's important, yeah, it's like the nature of the beast. You know, I so one thing that comes up, one thing that comes up a lot, is just literally time, because I want to be practical. There's going to be a lot of assistants and teachers on here. They're just like, I don't have time for all this. That what I'm going to have Kumbaya and sit around and what? When is that going to happen? So how do you help those teachers that feel like I don't have time, you know, I What do you think of that I don't have time?
And then you can, you know, help them so well. One of the one of the places that you do have a little bit of time is in that week or so before school begins at the beginning of the school year, and it's important that teams, the teaching teams, like the lead guide and the assistant, have a chance to be together and just talk about those things. And what we've done in some of the schools that we've worked in is come up with a document that just has a bunch of guiding questions, kind of like, get to know you questions between the the lead and the and the guide. But it's, it's also, we call it a prenuptial agreement, because some of the things in that get into the nitty gritties, like, what things can you absolutely not handle? Like, if a child throws up, can you handle that? Or do I have to be the one that always handles this good and you talk about a few of those things, and it helps to get to know the other person as well, especially if, if it's a new assistant that's coming into the relationship, or a new guide, so that there's some common ground, and that you know when, when something hits the fan, somebody's got it. I like the Canadian when something hits the fan.
I also am a really big fan of, like, the five minute huddle, which I'm sure you've heard of, like, that morning you've got, it's 815 the doors are gonna open at 830 you every day are making a chance to go. Where are you at? Where, like, where am I at? This is, I'm a Brene Brown fan, like, I'm at 50% I'm at 20 who, who's got this so that you are not just so that you're ready for your day, but also that you're connected, because that five minute huddle connects you quickly. It's like accelerated connection, and then you're going into your day together. And I think everyone, like, I know none of us have time. Everyone has five minutes before those doors open to go, what are we doing? And if you don't, if you have, like, your assistance on before care and you do arrival, it's like, okay, as those children are coming in and you're coming into the class, we're meeting at the door, and we're looking at each other, and we're taking three breaths together, and we're going into our day together, yeah.
And, I mean, I agree with that. That's that was that was powerful through my experience, to have that in the morning. Yep, yeah, go for it. Terry, sorry.
That's all right, the other kind of thing that can happen when you really get to know the other person that you're working with is you get to know what their interests and hobbies are as well. So for example, I had, I had an assistant who really loved embroidery, but I didn't know that right away until I talked to them about it, and then I said, You know what? Like embroidery, these activities of daily living that we do together with the children in the class that can be something that you present and you do, you're the expert there, yeah. And so they can take that into the classroom and have a different kind of connection, not just with the guide, but with the whole room as a community.
I'm happy you raised that, because every now and again, there will be an assistant who has this, like the teacher, just, I don't think this is great. If you hate music, you got to work on that. If you're the head teacher, or if you I think that's my view. So you wouldn't want to push it off on an assistant, but if you have an assistant, that's like, I spent 20 years in this in this band, it's like, my gosh, how awesome that would be to share with the children. So I like that you kind of you have this sheet. It's like, let's get to know each other before we head into this relationship or into this year. So. Just want to say really quickly, this is really for parents out there, and I think you guys are going to agree, but you push back if you don't, if you're at a school where Terry said, you know, you have that week before school starts, if there is no week before school starts, or at least a few days, if there is no break throughout the whole year, but every single day, even Christmas or the day before, is is a work day, usually for the assistance, because it becomes like a daycare day. You might want to question the school that you're at, because I think that tends to lead to the conflict that I've been talking about. I think that maybe you guys have seen is that a lot of times it's because the administration set up a situation which would be impossible for even the best of us to handle if you're constantly working. So I've just seen assistants that, like any day the teacher has off, the assistant's working, but if there's not a day off, any of us is going to be in trouble. So I don't know if you guys have seen that and you agree, but I just want to get that out there for the parents to be aware. If that's the school you're in, there might be bigger problems.
So yeah, and I would say, like we're looking at a time where parents need care, like they're really looking for care. Their lives are such that that that is a driving force of them going to Montessori schools and and what I would say is, if the administration has to do something like that to serve their families. It's how do you not? How do you how do you give, still, those teams time together. So if you are gonna stay open 20, you know, every day but december 25 which I agree with you, I think there has to be time in there to take time off and and take PD days. It's okay. We're still going to give this team these two days together, or these four hours together, so that you're still keeping your teams available to meet with each other. I also have feelings about leaving, like saying the guides can have two weeks off, but the assistants are going to keep working. That again, comes back to that hierarchy, and I think we really need to consider when we look at our Montessori schools, we aim to be non hierarchical in the way we set them up with our children. And so therefore we need to also with our staff. And so how do we support all of the staff in the work that they're doing, and value all of them as important?
And I appreciate you even Terry saying there, there's going to be needs in certain communities that we might need that care. But if you are the school leader in that community, if they never have a break, you're going you're setting yourself up for failure. So if that's right, even if you have to work those days, then there has to be a break somewhere else, as you're saying. So I appreciate you kind of adding that little clarification there. So that's good.
Would you say? I'm just thinking of, there's so many different views with communication with parents, even with the head teacher. You know, how do teachers communicate with parents? Do should it be admin should be so we're almost, we almost have to jump into that topic before we can be jumping. Do you think the assistant should be talking with parents about how the child is doing? Because that's another area of contention that I've seen at different schools. And you know, people think people that don't know Montessori, just like Montessori is x and I think every school is exactly the same, which is definitely not the case. What do you think is the proper way to look at assistants communicating with parents?
Well, I believe that the assistants are part of the experience of the day, and that they see the children and observe the children, and they're part of the observation team, and I don't think it's right for them to report on what's happening with the materials and what's happening with what the presentations that are being delivered, but it is okay for them to be talking about how the child is transitioning, making the transitions of the day, what happened, when, what they were eating, if they're eating A school lunch or or something like that. And just it's really important for them to be connecting with the parents as a valued member of the team, the teaching team, and so in that way, I think it's important that they are able to communicate. And then within the again, within the teaching team or within the school administration, if there are some limits that a particular school needs around that, or a particular guide needs around that, to be clear about what that is and so that that person can still have, you know, a natural conversation with parents, but also be able to turn and say, Actually, I think that's a great question for My my partner, yeah. So why don't why don't you, you touch base with them?
I think my stomach just made a noise. Do you have anything to add? Katie on my stomach? Yeah, no.
I agree. And yeah, I've heard that. We hear that all the time, that assistants aren't welcome to speak to parents. And again, we keep coming back to this two big things. Relationships are huge. So we want those assistants to be trusted by the parents. We want the parents to be trusted by the assistants. We know we've got a lot of research that shows that that relationship between parents and educators is huge for the success of the children. So you can't take that person out of that equation. You can't just say it's between the guide and the parents. That relationship is a huge circle of people. So you have to give them some value in the role. And if you're really unconfident about them speaking about curriculum, you give them safe topics, like, feel free like, I had a brand new assistant. She was like, 19, and so fresh and excited. I was like, talk about an anecdote. You can share an anecdote about their day, like how they put their shoes on, or, you know, them, them going outside for recess. But I was very clear about the guidelines, because I wasn't sure, you know how, how, how she could do it. But you just you have to be you have to know that you want them to talk to the parents, the parents, the assistants and the parents to talk and how and give guidance around that, just like any other thing in the training that you're going to do
with them. Yeah, and I think if you do that clearly, if that's done really, with clarity and understanding, then it it's quite natural. It doesn't have to be complicated, and it makes everybody feel part of the bad equation.
Yeah, and both the way that you both are speaking, you're saying it explicitly, but this is helpful for everybody in the community. Like this is integral to the community, whereas I think it's generally like I on one side, you might have this well, you want to make assistance feel valued, and it's just like you're already in trouble. Because you said, Make assistance feel valued, you know, like that's already we're in a troubling area. Or I worked, I was consulting, helping out of school, and this guy, they had some Spanish speaking assistants, and he said, Oh no, they never speak to the parents. And, you know, this was funny enough. I was consulting in Florida, South Florida, where it's like 50% of the population speaks parents speak Spanish. So when I got in there, I just said, you know, I was talking, and they have so much they had so much knowledge about the day, because sometimes they would be there without the head teacher. So I just started saying, no, let's talk to the parents. I know the parents would love talking to them because they were speaking in Spanish. It was just this beautiful thing. But it wasn't, I didn't do it out of this, like, oh, I want them to feel that was like they can add value here. So I like the approach and just what's coming across from you guys in that respect. Now, I know, let me just say, if some people are gonna watch this go, no, no, no, this is all this is all wrong. Assistants should do exactly what the teacher says. And this is, this is, this is, what do you guys say to that? And, like, why should? Why should everybody listen to you, versus this person saying, No, the assistance is the assistant is best with her mouth or his mouth shut.
Like, Why listen to you guys?
Well, we hope that they wouldn't say that. We hope maybe they won't go that far. But, you know, maybe there's, there's some element of that. I think, I think we've been through it, you know, we've both been doing this a long time. We've had so many assistants, and we've worked in so many different teams, in so many different spaces. And, you know, this piece about relationships. Relationship that is really keeps coming up for us, is really been proven over and over again that, you know, when we treat each other respectfully and when we live in community together, there's so much added value, not just to the children's lives or the parents lives, but to our own. Like it feels so much better I can go home and remember the great day I had with my team than when, when I feel like I'm an island by myself, because that's not possible. Like we we are in this together, and so we have to value each other, and each are unique and super important role in the classroom. And I've seen that, you know, in all the Casa classrooms I've worked in, the best times I've had is when I really love the team I'm with. Yeah,
yeah, I completely agree with that. I and, you know, I think, I think it's funny to kind of tie what we were just talking about previously, the the ideas of power and control we really have to examine with everything we do, because they crop up, they're hidden there, and we don't even realize we're doing it. But when, and I've been on the other end, I've felt like I don't have any say, and I can't do anything about the things that are happening. And nobody likes to to not feel like they have the autonomy to do what they know is right, and so like without, without going to extremes, I think we need to have that, that kind of respect for each other, that that we are on the same team. We are making plays that are kind of leading to the outcome that we hold collectively. We hold together. And I
think both of us have had the great privilege of being both things. Like, we've both been assistants in our lives. Same with me. So like, I think, I think when someone's saying that like, Assistant should be seen and not heard, they may not have ever had the opportunity to be an assistant, because, like, at the best parts of my day are when I get to go and be you know, now I supply assist a lot, but when I've been able to be an assistant, it's so such a privilege. And so I get the other side and and I see, I see what it means to support someone else in a different way. Yeah,
and that seems like a skill that what kind of we all need more broadly, given the world, given our the world we're in right now, just seeing through the other person's eyes. So is there anything else, like, content wise, or something about Montessori with the system that you really want to get across, that I have failed in pulling out of you too. I
do really want, I want to go, and this is, like you said, ask the question, wrong or right? When do things go wrong and when do things go right? I just wanted to, like, make a point, and I don't know where, where it lands here, but sometimes our new assistants in particular, take what we say is black and white, and like, these are the rules, and this is the rule I have to uphold, because I've been told by the guide. And I think, like, I had a new assistant, and I said, you know, generally, when the children take something out off the shelf, they need to put it back on the shelf before they go to something. And so she was, we were in our day, and a child had left her their material on the shelf, and they were going and they were concentrating on someone, something else, and they my assistant, went over and got the child interrupted their concentration, brought them back to the material and said, You need to put this back on the shelf, which is exactly what I told her. But with this concentration piece, we wanted to let that child really experience this concentration was key, and so the materials were secondary. So it's though, assistants who are really excited about being in a Montessori classroom are going to take those rules as you know. This is how we run things, and it's our job to, like, help them see the nuances, and when they see the nuances, life becomes a lot easier because montessoriums can look chaotic as like 24 to 30 children or 15 in the YCC choose their own path during the day and believing In the process and the routine and the structure and allowing ourselves to live through the chaos and those false fatigues. Assistants have to come to trust that, and they can only trust that with us supporting them through the learning and talking through what what's happening. So, you know, after that moment of her interrupting and bringing the child back at the end of the morning, I said, just so, you know, like I, I know I said that he should, they everyone should put their stuff away, but this is what he was doing, is actually concentrating on something. And concentration is the most important. It trumps everything. And she's like, Oh, okay, I said, so if you see them concentrating, just tidy it up quietly behind them. And the next time we're going to catch him and get bring him back to the work before he gets cut. But it's our job to see that cycle of learning for the assistant, just like we do for the for the children.
And yeah, you just, and you called it, it's cycle, because I was going to say that is, because I think it's exciting, like, Oh, I just taught her that, and then tomorrow she should know it forever. It's like, no, that's not how learning. Works for anybody. But yeah, so it's cool that you call it a cycle. I like that. Yeah,
and that was the key thing that when I was writing my notes, I was like, I really want to make sure that we understand that the trajectory is not we tell an assistant something and they learn it great. So it's a growth over time as well.
Terry, anything that I have not drawn out of you.
It's, I think that, that the big learning happens from experience and and that's kind of along the same lines. It's like living this thing every day is where, where the information is, and if we're talking about it, if we're communicating about it, even if, if things, if we're having conflicts, but we're still having the dialog, then I think the relationship builds and builds it and builds. And it's when we shut down that communication and we start averting our gaze. We won't look at our assistant anymore. That's when those you know, the doors start revolving. We see assistance going or or guides leaving.
And I know you guys are doing broader work that, because everything we're saying, what you just said is like, it seems we're in this as human beings, politically and so forth. So it's just such a lesson for all of us what you guys are getting at. So I'm very happy I found you guys. I'm very happy we met, because I've been, I've been wanting to do an assistance episode for so long, and I was like, There's no way I'm just going to talk about assistance and getting now two extra. It's just, it's cool. And so thank you very much for hopping on with me.
Well, it was a pleasure. We would love, we love talking about assistance. We love them, yeah. Well,
cool deal. So I will get everybody your information, and we will, if you want to reach them, we will be able to so happy again. You guys came on and thank you. Thanks. Thanks for your time. Take care. Yeah, everyone coming out of that discussion with Kate and Terry, I just want to summarize a few points that I thought were pretty key. So first off, Kate had mentioned that you if you're an assistant, you really got to want to be in there, and I think that goes for any of us, whatever our roles in working with children, or anything really, in jobs, in my view, but particularly if we're working with children, so you got to want to be in the classroom. Second point was that Terry mentioned, I think this is kind of fundamental, but the assistant's role is an aid to the teacher, not necessarily an aid to the child. Now, ultimately, you're helping the child, but you're doing it by aiding the teacher in the classroom. So if that seems odd to you, or seems this seems wrong, I mean, think through it, talk with your teacher, but I agree with Terry. I think that is the role of an assistant in a Montessori classroom number three, Terry mentioned this again. Big learning really comes from experience. So if you have zero experience, and all you have been is trained, and you think you know everything, you're going to be in for a wide awakening when you get into the classroom, you need to get yourself some experience. And that's when you really start to understand children. And I mean, I believe understand yourself. So that kind of transitions. You also do need some training, whether that is a formal training by somebody who really knows what they're doing and has had a lot of experience in the classroom, I'm not all about getting trained by somebody who had a year experience in class and jumped out and starts consulting and training, because you need somebody who's been with children for years and years and really knows them, or as they both kind of mentioned, particularly Kate. But I think both agreed with this, that you want somebody to help you that has been in the classroom, whether trained or not. I think I just reiterated the same point there, but you get it Okay, get somebody who has experience to help you understand children, help you understand what to do in the classroom and so forth. What else here? Five or the fifth point I've got written down, conflict is inherent in life. Kate mentioned this. I mentioned this, will we are never going to have a relationship where there is never any disagreement, never any conflict. And I mean, I personally believe if that is the relationship you have, something's going wrong, right? Because we are all unique human beings, and at some point another we're going to disagree, and it's how do we deal with that disagreement that matters. So between the assistant and the teacher, I've seen between two teachers in the same school, between teacher and admin, and that kind of transitions into what Kate and Terry are up to with their company called gather Montessori. They're really trying to emphasize the importance of relationship and community in this whole experience that we have as educators working with children and then out into the broader world, whether you're working with senior citizens, adults and so forth, their belief is that you need the whole everybody together to aid in this endeavor. They're working with children, so if you want to reach either of them, or both of them, or learn more about them, go over to gather montessori.com and that is G, A, T, H, E, R, gather montessori.com I imagine they'd be happy to hear from you. So hopefully you guys will reach out. I want to just again say thank you to both of you, Kate and Terry Millie, for coming. Coming on. It was a pleasure being with you. If you all out there enjoyed the episode, please share it with others who you think might enjoy and definitely let us know. I mean, leave in the comment section if you're on YouTube or, you know, review if you're on one of these podcast players, or write us directly again. You can reach them@gathermontessori.com I'm Jesse McCarthy, you can reach me at Montessori education.com however you get to us, share what you got to say. You know, whether it's good, bad, indifferent, whatever, say something, and I think that's it. So thank you very much guys for being on board with the show, and we'll see you next time. Adios.