As a teacher or an administrator it’s wonderful to hear a mom or dad say, “I want to go back to school here.”
Today’s guest Bridget Dangel — longtime Montessori educator, school owner, and mom — shares her experience running a chill, home-like Montessori school that no doubt often brought on this kind of parent feedback.
You can reach Bridget Dangel here.
TO HEAR OTHER EPISODES OF THE MONTESSORI EDUCATION PODCAST, VISIT HERE.
TO GET NEW EPISODES AS THEY’RE RELEASED, SUBSCRIBE FOR FREE TO the YouTube Channel or ANY PODCAST PLAYER:
About Jesse McCarthy
For 20 years, Jesse McCarthy has worked with thousands of children, parents, teachers and administrators — as a principal for infants to 8th graders, an executive with a nationwide group of private schools, an elementary & junior-high teacher, and a parent-and-teacher mentor.
Jesse received his B.A. in psychology from the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) and his Montessori teacher's diploma for ages 2.5 to 6+ from Association Montessori Internationale (AMI), the organization founded by Dr. Maria Montessori.
Jesse has spoken on early education and child development at schools around the globe, from Midwest America to the Middle East, as well as at popular organizations in and outside of the Montessori community: from AMI/USA to Twitter. Jesse now heads MontessoriEducation.com and hosts The Montessori Education Podcast.
Transcript: Laid-back, Family-centered Montessori | with Bridget Dangel
The educator Dr. Maria Montessori once said, “The child developing harmoniously and the adult improving himself at his side, make a very exciting and attractive picture.” Welcome to Montessori Education, with me, Jesse McCarthy, where we talk raising children and educating students, while bettering ourselves right alongside them..
Hey everyone, good to be back. So what do you think about children not wearing shoes to school? Like I'm talking straight up barefoot. And if you work in Montessori, what's your take on parent involvement? And I'm including moms and dads possibly hanging out in the classroom with the children. And then what's the role of academics or more specifically test taking in Montessori?
So these are a few of the things that came up during a recent discussion I had with this longtime educator and parent, Bridget Dangel. I met her, I don't know, years ago. At her own incredibly chill school. It's like way down south in a calm fishing community of the Florida Keys. Now she's got over 25 years of experience in the field. And this is including over a decade running that successful say kind of islands vibe Montessori school of hers -- which interestingly all three of her own children attended. So I think she has a unique perspective on what Montessori can be in practice and I hope you guys enjoy the conversation.
[00:01:33] Jesse McCarthy: All right, Bridget Dangel, thanks for coming on the show and being with us.
[00:01:37] Bridget Dangel: Thank you, Jesse. It's great to be here.
[00:01:40] Jesse McCarthy: So I visited your school. I was looking for potential schools, my wife and myself to start ourselves, and yours came after a bunch and it hit me as, Oh, I like the feel of this place. This is, this is the real deal. So just starting off here with the listeners out there, what's your school like? What was a day like? What makes what you were doing something unique, or maybe 'This is what Montessori should be?' ...
[00:02:07] Bridget Dangel: Well, I think when people say like, you know, what is Montessori to me, I think the first thing I want to express is it's a fulfilling and more engaging way of life. This isn't just a school for children to learn. It's a place for them to be and to grow and to develop. Uh, it's very family centered.
My school was always very family centered and we educated the whole child. We didn't just, as I say, teach them to read and write. We taught them to be really, I think, incredible people. Give them power to, to become that on their own.
[00:02:41] Jesse McCarthy: Now, what's interesting is you were in a unique environment too, because you're out in the Keys.
So do you think it had to do that you were able to focus on, 'Hey, this is about living life with these children, getting them prepped for life, enjoying life versus,' you know, this huge push for academics. You got to know their math. And it's just this, this stress on children. Do you think it had to do with where you were or do you think you could do that in like, you know, the heart of New York city? What's your feel in that regard?
[00:03:08] Bridget Dangel: Yeah, I think partially it is where we are here in the Florida Keys, this great system of islands that we live on, people have a slower mentality to them, a happier, go lucky, maybe more trusting way of life, but I do know my school stood out, I drew parents for a reason.
I was definitely known as the school that was different, um, offering a different advantage to children. So yeah, part of it, we have no shoes at my school. And that was great. That was very much living on the island lifestyle of being able to spend your day barefoot. Parents loved that as well, coming into the school and just feeling like at home.
[00:03:47] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah. And that, that seems like, oh, there's just minor thing, but your school definitely had a feel like all the children and, and the adults that are kind of there, it's their home.
But I mean, clearly in all Montessori, there's mixed ages, but do you think you were creating more of a home-like environment versus kind of these more corporate or business feeling schools, not that business or corporations are bad, but you just get this generic feel for some Montessori schools today.
[00:04:14] Bridget Dangel: Absolutely, and I definitely kept my school away from that as much as I could. So when everyone arrived, um, I tried to incorporate once, Jesse, this drop off service, you know, like they do at some of the fancier schools, maybe you can just drop your child as a valet service and go. And my parents did not like it. They enjoyed coming into the classroom each morning and spending a bit of time. I guess when I created this family-like environment, they came in. So the children would come in each day, Jesse, and they would just choose their lesson right away.
Some would come in and finish breakfast. Some would come in and start reading a book. But it didn't really feel like it was a traditional classroom where it started when the bell rang. People would filter in. Children would come. School started at 8, but by 830, everyone was there. Everyone was doing their own independent or in small groups lesson.
So in that way, it felt like people were walking into their home.
[00:05:06] Jesse McCarthy: So this is such an interesting, cause I've seen so many schools and one of the reasons I wanted you on was to kind of give people, Hey, this is one approach to running a Montessori school. So I've seen this drop off, the car line, then I've seen, 'Oh, parents are talking at the door,' you know? So there's so many different ways. And I've seen both of them go well and pretty poorly. So do you think when the parents are dropping off, like, let's say they're interacting with you or they see you, are you communicating with them at drop off? Are you having discussions or at pickup? Or is that for other times with you?
[00:05:37] Bridget Dangel: I know some teachers would definitely say that that time was for the child, and I agree, but with the system I had, the children didn't want me right away. They wanted to engage in their classroom and in their environment, which often left the parents standing at the door. And I was there greeting them, of course, and I would end up talking to them, but most often I'd say, come on in, just make yourself at home. And so these children would be working, I would be, you know, fluttering about making sure the sponges were wet, ready for the practical life lessons, filling up the wash basins for them to wash their dishes in after they snack or have lunch. I had my things with my assistant to do, but the parents would usually just sit in awe and watch these children work. They sometimes would join their child, but not most often.
The parents were good. You know, they, they knew not to talk loudly to one another. They, they were in their children's space. And they really did respect that. It was nice.
And I remember when parents thought the best thing to do was to leave without saying goodbye to their child, I would always say, no, no, no, please go and say goodbye.
That moment when they realize you're gone is not a settling moment. You have to tell them, even for the younger ones, while it's hard, I do believe, a formal goodbye is necessary.
[00:06:55] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah. I wonder where that even began, it's kind of like the rip the Band Aid off. You just like sneak out. It's like, when would you want that, let's say with your partner or something to all of a sudden they just disappear. It's like, what? And you're looking for them. Yeah. You're like, where the hell did my wife go? I know.
So I want to go back to this because it sounds so beautiful, right? You've got parents coming in, they're sitting, maybe having tea, look at it, but to a normal teacher out there, even some parents, it can seem bizarre, but I think it's mainly bizarre because we're in these normally structured classrooms.
And, you know, there's this divide and then management or, or the admin is the one who deals with parents. So what guidance or advice would you, I know you're doing some consulting, what would you give to these teachers and even the administrations that are in more of a kind of corporate or, you know, those settings where like there's a Publix or a Ralph's or some shopping thing, and that's where the school is at. How can they start to get a little bit more relaxed in their environment where they might have the type of relationship or general environment where a parent could come in, um, and just chill for a little bit or at least start having a conversation at pickup. What kind of guidance could you give if any?
[00:08:08] Bridget Dangel: I would say open your doors. An open door policy. I believe a parent has the right and the privilege to see where their children are each day. I believe Montessori is for the entire family. I never would believe a school is to be without a parent. I feel so strongly about that, I guess. I don't know how we got to the point we are in our world where parents aren't welcome into a classroom.
I don't care where your school is. Like I'm not a huge... I love the beauty, the aesthetic factor of a beautiful school, of course, but I do believe you can create this type of place in any classroom, in any school. I think it just takes a little bit of trust for the teacher to open their door to their parents and help guide their parents to not be judgmental or not offer too much advice. Just to be an observer.
I think you can design the structure. You can have anything you want, really.
[00:09:04] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah. And I don't want to, I mean, I know there's a lot of teachers and admin, I don't want to scare anybody because it's like this. I think you were living somewhat of an ideal, in a good way, like a practical, ideal, uh, school out there. And then the development from some of the more structured and rigid to something like you were doing, I think it would take some time because it's just, we've kind of been bred into this view of this Oh, it's school and now separate, you know. I'll even give you an example, somebody was writing me asking about, they wanted to get into Montessori and be a teacher.
And I was like, man, I'm so excited for your journey, but they didn't realize all of the training, not in Montessori, but the kind of extra requirement that each state requires of them. So you, like a grandma can't just cruise into a Montessori classroom and start hanging with the children. I mean, if she's a family member, yes, but let's say a grandma is like, 'hey, I want to be a substitute in your classroom, Bridget.' Um, that would be illegal in most States because she doesn't have her units.
[00:10:06] Bridget Dangel: She has to be fingerprinted, right?
[00:10:08] Jesse McCarthy: But not only that, some require them to have units of you know, child training or something. And this is a grandma of like 10 grandchildren. Do they need to be trained by your local community college in how to be with children if they're a grandparent?
[00:10:23] Bridget Dangel: No,
[00:10:23] Jesse McCarthy: you know,
[00:10:24] Bridget Dangel: I don't believe they do.
I think too having a private school, Jesse, has allowed me to do these things my way. Of course, I had to have my licensing with the state of Florida and the local licensing. And that was all fine. Of course, I didn't fit in exactly to their checklists and took some time and efforts to make a compromise in some areas.
But as far as the parents coming in, I was clear in my parent handbooks. This is the kind of school we have. This is what you're signing up for. When parents came on tours, this is what we do. Children have access to the kitchen, they will go and get their snack and they'll come out and they'll eat it.
They will carry glass plates and these plates will break and they will clean it up, you know, so I think I'm pretty upfront with what is about to happen and these parents know what they're signing up for, you know.
[00:11:10] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah, that's, I think that's, I want to be realistic about the actual environments that so many teachers and administrators find themselves in, in terms of just the kind of freedom of the adult to, to do the type of things, even no shoes and socks.
I mean, that's a liability to some people. So I'm all about pushing to what works for the children and what works for the environment. So maybe even you're talking about the glass plates. So that's a great example of like in our little school house, we have the same where it's breakable things, but that can be scary to some parents, and then definitely some teachers that are new to Montessori. How, how was that development for you? Like, were you just seemingly raised in an environment where you felt comfortable with that type of thing? Or did you have to have a kind of transformation as an adult to see that children are capable of carrying real things, instead of everything being plastic?
Of getting their own snack versus just the teacher plopping it down for everybody at the same exact time. Did you have to delve into that or was that just you? That's the person you are. No, that wasn't me.
[00:12:11] Bridget Dangel: My parents were great, but they were traditional. You know, I was raised in the traditional school system.
Definitely didn't know anything about Montessori. I give 100 percent credit to my teacher training center. It was Toronto Montessori Institute in Toronto, Canada. It was incredible. It was an 11 month program, 40 hours a week. Most intense year of my life. They asked us not to have a job or work while we did our studies and I was I ended with three degrees. My you know, three to six age six to nine and nine to twelve.
So I ended up with my Lower and Upper Elementary and my my Children's House. It was amazing. It was life transforming, to the point where my husband now, who was my boyfriend at the time, was worried about me. He called it a cult at one point.
Mind you, we were 22 years old, but it was life changing. I remember thanking my professors. I told them like you've changed who I am, the way that I push in a chair, the way that I observe the world around me, this is what changed in me.
[00:13:12] Jesse McCarthy: That's fantastic. That transformation Montessori talks about it.
And it's, it is great. So just to give a shout out to, I don't know who your trainers were, but I'd love to just get their names out there since you're, if you want,
[00:13:21] Bridget Dangel: Nancy Coyle, Rosanna Gaudio, Daniel Zutras, you know, just incredible, inspiring mentors.
[00:13:29] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah, I just love to hear when some, when somebody is so positive, let's get them out there.
So to people that are new to this, you said, you know, it felt kind of like a cult, even to your boyfriend at the time. It can definitely feel cultish to people on the outside. And when you're going through it, maybe there's this excitement, like, "Oh, I want to tell everybody about it," which has that cult feeling like, Oh, now you're going to spread the gospel.
You know,
[00:13:52] Bridget Dangel: come with me. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:13:53] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah. Walk with me, I know the way. Um, do you have any guidance to new people that are getting into Montessori that are kind of, you know, they're over the top excited. Like I know there used to be, I'd see teachers all the time. They were like 18, 19 years old, and they're, they're telling parents of five kids how to parent, you know, cause they just got trained.
Do you have any guidance to kind of, Enjoy it and do the growth and be pumped, but to tone it down if you're becoming Mr. Preachy out there to other people?
[00:14:21] Bridget Dangel: I would say lead by example, you know. Know your audience. Know how much you can, you can talk about it, get a planned parent education night when parents are coming to learn about levels of discipline within the Montessori child, then you can go ahead and read off your notes, you know, uh, but when you're at a, at a party or at the doctor's office, yeah, I think you need to find your elevator speech, you know, your quick snippet of what is important and what appeals to them. But I always invite, I remember when people used to call my school for a tour and they'd say, what time can I come?
And I'd say, You don't set up a time, you arrive, you know, if you want to see a school for what it's worth and what it's really at, then you show up. I said, I don't want you to plan a time, you just come and join us. I don't know. I think just be patient. You can't do this all at once. It's going to take time if you can be open to it.
[00:15:16] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah. So it is, it's wild hearing you. Cause even that just like off the cuff, like, oh, if you just come by, like the idea of that, let's say you've got 300 children from infancy to eighth grade or something that could be very problematic because even how does somebody give a tour if you don't know about infancy and eighth grade?
So you had this beautiful environment. What I'm doing is I don't want to scare off people like, well, how would we do this? We have like four tours a day. But I see what you're saying. Cause you just want to get across that this is not a formalized, we're going to show you the perfect setting when everything's going well.
So I totally get that. Did... Let me ask you this. Did you ever run into problems with that, where a parent might show up and it's just one of those days when it's just kind of chaotic. You didn't have that?
[00:16:06] Bridget Dangel: No, no. And if it got chaotic, we did something different. You know, if it starts to get crazy, you go outside, you take a group to the garden, you bring your journals out to the chicken coop.
I don't know. You just have to stay one step ahead, I guess. No, I know it can be crazy. My school only had like 80 children and so it was manageable, I guess.
[00:16:29] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah, and I think from my experience that I I've seen schools all the way from literally I mean we've got eight kids in this little schoolhouse and I've worked with schools all the way up to like 400 plus and It really is what you do with it. But I think, Bridget, the fact that you had 80 children, like the 80 to a hundred for me always seemed like that sweet spot.
And then the admin that were really, really good, they basically break up their giant school into little mini schools almost, right around that 80 mark, because of what you're saying, where it can, you can have these more casual interactions. You can adapt to what's going on. Um, it's, it's hard once you, once you start getting the numbers higher and higher. You can do it, but it gets, it gets tougher.
So.
[00:17:13] Bridget Dangel: I also think the secret to the success, Jesse, would be keeping the same families for a long time. I, you know, going, getting, thinking about our podcast today, I put a lot of thought into the families. And I guess, let me back up. It took me aback when we discussed this podcast topic, and it was hard for me to come up with an example or a thought on, children that thrived in my school or why my school stood out as something a little maybe different or offered something more.
I thought it was normal. I thought my school was the exact same pretty much as every other school out there. I thought every child was given the same opportunity. So I never really thought it was spectacular. I thought it was normal. Um, and it didn't take until like years after a family left or a child graduated that they'd see me and remind me.
And it really opened my eyes over the years and thinking about today's podcast really made me, made me realize, Wow, I think it was pretty amazing. So thank you for this conversation today. I'm seeing my own school in a different light, I guess.
[00:18:21] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah. You're welcome. And I think that's one of the advantages,
and I tell teachers this, I tell parents this: Do your research. And as you're a teacher, even for yourself to go out and see, cause you know, Bridget, it's very possible at times maybe there's some little thing that you weren't doing amazing, and if you go out and observe other classrooms, you might pull that in.
You know, you're like, wow, she did this. Um, so I just tell people, I just experience and observing school after school after school, you get a good sense of what's working and what's not. Um, so again, that's one of the reasons I want to keep in contact with Bridget here is because of that, because you really did, you walk into your environment, it just feels like, 'I want to be here. I want, I want to be playing with these, these materials.'
[00:19:04] Bridget Dangel: I can tell you, our parents absolutely loved it. I remember locking up at the end of the day and saying, "Okay, all you parents out on the playground, still with your children, I am leaving. So you're going to have to go through the gate, close the gate when you go, but it is getting dark.
Like I'm going home." And they would stay, you know, like these parents were funny. Um, but we had such incredible parents. And again, because I spent some of them, eight, nine years with me between siblings. These children a lot came in the infant toddler age, and then they left at the end of grade three when my elementary not for profit school that I started ended.
I grew that school on the request of these parents. You know, I originally went to Children's House Montessori Academy, and then they all came to me and said, "We will be your board. We will help you. This is what we need. We need you to start in elementary." So I guess having that support of those parents meant the world, you know, really, I don't know if it's been like this without them.
[00:20:00] Jesse McCarthy: And I would say, I don't think so because I, from my experience too, it's like what you're saying, if you get the parents as excited as the children to be there, then you've got, I mean, it's gold. It's like, that's what we all want, a community with all of us.
[00:20:14] Bridget Dangel: For us to do our job well, we have to include the family. Don't we?
[00:20:18] Jesse McCarthy: I agree. And I love what you're saying because at the end of the day, the parents are on the playground and we're not pushing them, they, it all of a sudden it becomes like, 'Oh my God, this is fun. This is a good time. I want to stay.'
[00:20:29] Bridget Dangel: 'This is a space for me as well.'
[00:20:31] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah, yeah. And I think that feeling of it's almost like you can relive your childhood with the children, you know, and for some people, maybe they didn't have that bright of a childhood so it's even more spectacular to be out there running around with the kids.
And again, I don't want to harp on this, but we're becoming too formulized with Montessori, it's becoming too like, Oh, I know what this cookie cutter looks like, so let me just make another one in a different city. And it's the same generic thing. Um, so that's another reason why I really wanted to emphasize and bring you on and show people there's different ways to do this stuff. You know,
[00:21:09] Bridget Dangel: And if parents are on board you know, there's no limit. There's just endless opportunity. I had some parents I know say to me when I see them in our town that we live in, you know, just ran into an old parent the other day and she said, "you know, Bridget, I sometimes feel very sad for the families of this town who never had your school who never had the opportunity to go to Montessori Academy."
And I thought, well, that's funny. You know, I know parents have told me, uh, their, their discipline, a lot of the parents would tell me their discipline styles changed. And, you know, parents who didn't agree with my philosophies or my suggestions, they often wouldn't stay for a long time. And that's OK, too.
But for the families who did, you know, they would, they would stand out within their own families as now this family that doesn't discipline in the same way or they'll listen to their child. And a bunch of the families years ago used to say when they were frustrated at home with their parents, they'd say, what would Bridget say?
You know, and so I think that's funny. And again, I never really thought much of it.
[00:22:10] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah, I know. And it's, I mean, hearing you say that there is a way that if you're living the kind of way that you think is good, and you're not out there like with a megaphone saying, "You all need to follow this!"
It's interesting how people tend to want your aid when they saw the kids in your school, they interacted with the parents at your school at some gathering like, wow, these people like this school. Let me go check it out. And, and then they start asking you questions like, well, can you help me with my child versus this feeling like 'You are bad if you don't do it this way.' You know, it's kind of moralizing.
[00:22:47] Bridget Dangel: I would ask for 75 percent commitment, um, to parent education nights, if possible.
There is no discipline if, if that couldn't happen. But I'd also say, if you're not able to come send a grandparent, send a neighbor, send a babysitter, send whoever, you know, let's just get this. I, I didn't say this, but I was thinking it let's get the word out there as much as we can. You know, and I realized I never advertised. People would say you should advertise.
And I was like, no, I know it's a small town, Key Largo. It's not a huge town, but there were quite a few preschools, in our town, and a couple of Montessori schools, believe it or not, but I never had to advertise. It was that word of mouth and keeping that same group of parents year after year. You weren't really looking for enrollment, I guess.
[00:23:30] Jesse McCarthy: It's interesting because things are changing now just because, you know, you, for most people out there are listening, Montessori is not trademarked. So you could literally, you know put up a school and put Montessori on it and you got a school, even if you're doing nothing that's Montessori.
So I think there's a lot more competition. And let's say Bridget, the school next to you was open from seven to six versus, I don't know, what were your hours back then? Do you remember?
[00:23:53] Bridget Dangel: It was eight to five.
Yeah, eight to five and somebody seven to six and they have Montessori in their name.
So, um, it just it becomes a little bit more challenging, but i'm with you. I think at the end of the day, it's the product. What are you doing? Is it good or is it crappy? And I yeah, I think that's what sells, you know ultimately.
It's what the school is willing to do for their families, too. I actually opened at 7:15. I would have one teacher go in at 7:15 and it was only for the teacher kids, the local high school and the traditional school teachers often would send their kids to me.
I had teacher kids always and they started work early. So I accommodated them. I said, I will find you a staff member who will come in and leave earlier each day. And they'd have about seven kids from 7:15 to 8:00, and they would just help with the school prep. They were teacher kids. So I guess they were used to it anyways.
[00:24:42] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah. So you're kind of adapting, which again, you might need to do this if you're an admin out there, a school owner. Um, so one thing I do want to ask you, because thinking about your interactions with parents, it seems like you had great relationships. Again, you're in a unique area. The Keys are kind of the people that go there, they go there for a reason.
What happened with academics? Cause I don't want to say, 'Oh, we're just hanging out. We're having this lovely time' and children aren't learning anything. So maybe this is a two part question. What were the kids learning? Cause children should learn a lot and love to learn.
And then did you get any pushback from parents or questioning around, are my children learning anything?
[00:25:23] Bridget Dangel: Well, fortunately for me, prior to me starting my school, I was the assistant principal at a Montessori charter school, quite a larger school in town, and I was there for eight years.
So, as a teacher and then the assistant principal, so I actually helped create the curriculum that correlated the Montessori standards with the Florida state curriculum. So therefore I had all of like, everything was documented. I was really great that way. And so were my teachers. No parent ever asked to see it.
But it allowed us to create amazing progress reports to show their child's status, where they are on the Florida level, and then also in the Montessori level. We didn't hold a high standard to grades. We didn't discuss it. It was more of a graded system of a one, two, three, or four.
So they knew where their child was. In kindergarten aged up, I offered the parents the chance to do the testing if they wanted. And I would administer, um, a state test for those children, but if the parent wasn't interested, then they wouldn't. They had learned so much. You know, and learning was not a problem.
Maybe there's occasionally a child who didn't learn as quickly or as well, but given time, you give that three year cycle, as Montessori says, I don't believe there's much room for failure.
[00:26:43] Jesse McCarthy: So why don't you do this? And I'm curious, because another parent could be out there being like, well, this all sounds kind of good, but, but what are they learning?
What were some of the children learning that you're talking about the three to six environment, or maybe the six and I like, give me some examples of some "academic" work.
[00:27:00] Bridget Dangel: I will give you some examples.
[00:27:02] Jesse McCarthy: Nice.
[00:27:04] Bridget Dangel: Um, my, one of my favorite memories is of a boy named Devin. This boy couldn't get enough of grammar and identifying the parts of speech. For two years he would come in and excitingly start his day with choosing a grammar box. And he would symbolize not only sentences, but he would ask me to symbolize poetry and stories. He couldn't get enough. And so then when he finished all of the boxes, he asked me if he could start teaching the younger children.
So he became the grammar teacher for that third year that I had him. It was amazing. I thought for sure he would grow up to be an author or a professor. He didn't. He's a fisherman today. He loved grammar and that was really cool. I'll always think of him when I present grammar lessons.
[00:27:51] Jesse McCarthy: What's cool about this story too, is so much of this work, this excitement with grammar, so this fishermen now probably could like, you know, dissect somebody's essay or something, but I think people get the wrong sense of what so much of this work is about. Like he, he got into grammar and he's excited with learning, but that doesn't necessarily mean that this is going to be his chosen work, or it's going to be some direct relationship with his final career choice in life. You know, but, but isn't that like, there's this feel I remember in high school, like, are you going to go on a college track? Are you going to go on the press? And so everything was around preparing you for this very specific thing. And you're like, how do you know, at five or even 13, How do you know exactly what you're going to do?
[00:28:41] Bridget Dangel: You don't have to. I think we need to stop pressuring our children to know. Uh, that's also what the grades offer in the classroom is this end result. Children don't learn with this end result. That's an adult mind who focuses on the end outcome. A child is in the, into the process. So for Devin doing grammar, celebrate that moment.
Don't try to figure it out because it really doesn't make much sense why he loved grammar more than any other child. But it doesn't matter. The fact is he loved it, and then he left it, and maybe today, once in a while, he'll think about it. That's all we need to know, I think.
[00:29:16] Jesse McCarthy: So what would you do with the children, I mean, you're using grammar here, but let's take math or reading or something where, you know, you've got, Devin has this great, he's so pumped, but a child who just, "I don't want to do math."
"I don't want to do that." And, and, you know, of course, I mean, to some extent we do need grammar. We do need math. We need to be able to read. So what would you do with a child or children like that in some subject area?
[00:29:39] Bridget Dangel: Well, I think of Allison with math. She, um, never truly picked up math concepts easily, but she was always that child reading a chapter book before she should have been.
So she rejected a lot of the Montessori math lessons, but the one she would reluctantly choose when I prompted her to choose something from the math area would be the hundred board. So she would do it and she could do it in her sleep, you know, just laying out the first presentation, the one to a hundred.
And then I realized, okay, she doesn't like the skip counting bead chains. What am I going to do? So I started to like, she'd come in in the morning and I'd have just a little stack of the tiles there on the hundred board. And she'd kind of look at me and I'd say, try it. And then she realized, Oh, I'm skip counting by sixes.
Or skip out by threes. And then she started to see these patterns, Jesse, and she got super excited. She'd see like the diagonal patterning of when you count by sixes, or the tens all are on the far right column, or in the middle, the fives all end with a zero or a five. And this became exciting for, for Alison.
And then it kind of turned for her. She was more open to math after that.
[00:30:46] Jesse McCarthy: So what do you say? Because I mean, I've seen this countless times over the years now, but what do you say to the parent or even to the kind of nascent, new teacher who's, there's a fear. My child's not going to do math. My child's not going to read.
We've seen it through the years. You see the end result. But what do you say to that new, the new Bridget, when Bridget just started or to the parent who's really concerned and stressing the teacher out, stressing their child out about math or reading, like, what do you say to them to be like, Let's take a chill pill.
Let's chill out a little bit. You know, how do you do it?
[00:31:21] Bridget Dangel: I'd say understand that there's a reason for this. There's something that that doesn't allow them to go to it with ease. So be patient. The more you push, the more they're going to reject you.
Be creative, right? Montessori says our job is to almost like be like a jester and just make it exciting and attractive. My job is to find the way to get through to that child. Be patient. Know that there's a reason that they're like that and know that it's possible to come out of that. Just find the way to do it.
[00:31:54] Jesse McCarthy: And it's interesting you, you say patience as one of those things. And that's, I mean, walking into your school and this is years ago now, it must've been like, I don't know how long ago that was, maybe four years. Yeah, maybe. Okay. So I still remember the feeling of just, Oh, this is a place where we can just relax.
So it's that feeling of there's patience. I'm not going to be rushed, whatever we're doing here, this is going to be relaxed. I think that kind of, that feel as a child, you really absorb that.
I think that came across in your school. Even the short time I was there. So
[00:32:26] Bridget Dangel: Nice. I think patience alongside being nonjudgmental. I need to teach children to stop being judgmental and stop comparing yourself to the other children. Sally might be strong at this, but George is so strong at this.
Let's celebrate each other's strengths. Instead of comparing ourselves to each other and making it a difference. Everyone will get to the end line at some point. Today at school, I kind of asked a classroom I was in to diminish the need for a line leader. Oh, I don't know that when a teacher designates as a line leader, it's like designating that 'A' to that best top student. Let's display their work at the front of the room. Stop making it important to be the first person in line. Let's instead make it important that we're all getting to the same place. In a different position within that line, instead of fighting to get to your spot. "I'm the line leader!" I'm sad when I hear children reacting that way.
[00:33:24] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah, this is, it's so funny because...
[00:33:27] Bridget Dangel: Sorry I went off on a tangent, but I
[00:33:29] Jesse McCarthy: I think it's a good tangent because I think it's another example of how children are absorbing what we say every single day, even though we don't know. Like where does the idea of wanting to be the first in line come from? Like, "Oh, you're the first!"
[00:33:43] Bridget Dangel: The day we're doing our job well is the day that no child needs to be first in line. That's why I love it when I dismiss children from class, I say, okay, everyone go line up. And at first it's a little crazy, right?
Because everyone just doesn't really know what to do. And they're only trying to form this line. But just sit back and watch it happen. They figure it out much better and much more quickly than the adults telling them, "You go first. Now you, now you, now you. Or finding ways to say, if you're wearing green today, go line up and then you get a group of them to go, or if you have seven letters in your name, go line up.
Just don't pinpoint. I think it's unnecessary. I really do.
[00:34:29] Jesse McCarthy: And even in doing that, you're, you're aiding them in learning something, like you're talking numbers there. It was seven letters or the sound, your name starts with this sound, so...
I feel like you and I could chat for hours about all of this stuff. I want to make sure because we got to head out soon, so is there anything you want to get in that I did not ask you about, where you can just say, Hey, I want to, I want this in here...
[00:34:50] Bridget Dangel: um maybe a bit about parent volunteers, like outside of the box, maybe.
[00:34:56] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah, no, go for it.
[00:34:57] Bridget Dangel: I just wanted to throw out some examples of what parents have been able to provide our school over the years in helping to make it so successful.
Parents would come in who were yoga teachers and want to give some yoga classes, or parents would want to come and speak about their native country that they've come from, or one mom who was an Eastern medicine doctor, once she came to the school and she took the kids out to the playground and she taught them how to scrape gumbo limbo bark and then go boil it in the kitchen.
What they were doing was making a paste for my co teacher who had a reaction to poison wood. So she taught the kids how to make a salve or a treatment for this poison wood. It was pretty cool. We, um, had a lot of charter fishermen over the years, and they would take our kids out fishing or to marine labs.
Once we actually had Buddhist monks come into our school, and they performed a yak dance and built sand mandalas with our class. That was pretty amazing. And of course the parents that have horses around here, they would invite us to their homes. One mom showed up with a horse on the playground. The kids went to the playground one day, and then she had this little miniature horse out on the playground. That was fun. I'll end with the last example of this couple that we had for maybe five years, they would come for half of the year. They'd split their time with their daughter between New York city and the Keys. And they were Broadway Lion King dancers and had been for like 15 years, like it was their career. We became very close, um, with the school and they taught the class one year a dance performance and taught them all the dance moves and did costumes and makeup.
And then we performed it at a local theater. So you can imagine grades one through three, 25 kids dancing, it was phenomenal. And thanks to these parents who just wanted to share their love of dance.
[00:36:55] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah. And it's great cause these kids get to experience, Oh, this is what adults are doing out there. Cause usually the context is, you know, your own parents' jobs, but what are other people out there in the world doing?
[00:37:06] Bridget Dangel: Exactly. Just one last example. Like, you know, the teacher's got her own passion, right? She's got to bring that passion she has into the classroom. And mine, I was an English poetry major at university and I love poetry. So I always share that in my classrooms. And my best memory was a little girl I taught, Annabelle. Annabelle fell in love with obviously Edgar Allan Poe's poem, Annabelle Lee, and in grade two or three she memorized this entire poem, and it's quite long.
And she asked me if she could go to the high school and recite this poem to her sister's English class, which she did. And she had it memorized, like, thinking, wow, what a child can do with a teacher's passion that's shared to her, where she could bring that herself. You know, it's pretty awesome.
[00:37:55] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah, that's fantastic. I wish more people could see your school now. What's the outcome of the school, by the way, is it still functioning there? What's going on with that school?
[00:38:03] Bridget Dangel: It is functioning. When I was, um, invited to come to Thailand and teach for a couple of years at an international school, while I was there, the property sold.
And so the person who bought the property, offered to buy my business. So I reluctantly let it go. Um, it was 12 years. I had it.
It served its purpose. I raised my three children there and hundreds and hundreds of children in this community. I did work as a consultant for the new owners for some time, created curriculum for them. Um, they still have some of the teachers that I had back then. So it's still doing well, happy to hear.
[00:38:40] Jesse McCarthy: Awesome. And then so, Bridget, jumping out here I just want to make sure if people want to get in contact with you, what's the best site for them to go to or an email address?
[00:38:49] Bridget Dangel: Okay. So it would be consult.montessoriessentials@gmail.com
[00:38:56] Jesse McCarthy: Ok. consult.montessoriessentials@gmail.com. Is that right?
[00:39:01] Bridget Dangel: You got it.. Yes, that's the one..
[00:39:03] Jesse McCarthy: All right. Reach out to Bridget.
I'll add that to the podcast episode page. So if you guys want to get ahold of Bridget, just email her. She, she loves talking Montessori and she's got a lot of good stuff to share.
[00:39:14] Bridget Dangel: Definitely would love to help any school or offer some conversation with anybody who wants to talk. Thank you, Jesse.
[00:39:20] Jesse McCarthy: Yeah. Well, thank you again, Bridget, for coming on. I'm glad I, I found your school years ago and came to meet you and uh what you created.
[00:39:29] Bridget Dangel: I'm really glad I got to meet you as well. At the time when we first met, I just thought you were someone looking to buy a school and I'm glad I got to realize the amazing work you do as well in Montessori. So it's really an honor to know you. And thank you for having me on today.
[00:39:43] Jesse McCarthy: Oh, you're welcome. I appreciate you saying that. So, uh, we will talk again, no doubt.
[00:39:48] Bridget Dangel: All right. All the best, Jesse.